Re: Mixed Chicks supports team light skin on Twitter, experiences fallout

by Indigo.Blue 19th January 2011, 4:25 am

I hear you creole beauty...but are you talking about the media or our neighbors???

Also, your name is "creole beauty"...would it be okay if I said "mixed beauty", "black beauty", white beauty"...somehow, I think 2 of those names would get the side eye while the other 2 will be embraced...(I hope that did not offend you...just making a point)

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 4:47 am

i think it starts with the media and ends with our neighbors and sad but true most decisions we make today are based on the end result of slavery and being brainwashed or condition by our own to get in where we fit in
Why is it that only us black women were told we had to tame our hair to get jobs and husbands and so on ? why is it that the light skin women are and were put on pedestal by society ? what happens today it's usually a direct Domino effect of our past but we have been pre condition to not even be aware of it
We didn't come from AFrica with perms , weaves , bleaching our skin and fighting each other #team light skin and #team dark skin did not exist on the boats that exported our ancestors here ?
Yes i know you might say well this things occur in AFrica an other countries with blacks now but that wasn't i always the case Why are we victims of all this ?
I was blessed to be raised by strong individuals who let me read books instead of watching Televisions who taught me to be proud of who i was because being someone else wasn't an option and i'm oh so grateful for that but i will be dishonest if i say i never looked in a room and felt ugly because everyone around me that seem to be successful , happy , and so on happen to be my polar opposite and almost felt to the need to conform my normal self to that image but than i woke up and decided that being me the way i was was beautiful and good enough no matter what any and every one may have to say

by Indigo.Blue 19th January 2011, 5:09 am

Yes "teams" did exist on the boat...there were tribes...
that is what we do as humans...we group...go to any school in the U.S...kids will eat lunch with the people who looks like them, their extracurricular groups, or by neighborhoods...I went to a HBCU...since everyone was black...we grouped by the city we were from...us v. Them is everywhere...it is not exclusive to black people...

We are not African...We are American...so no we did not wear weaves back in the 1700s...we also did not wear jeans...white men wore wigs though...I wonder if it was because he hated his straight hair...lol...we are beautifully human...no different then anyone else...

I think the struggles of dark women are self propelled...it is not the media...it is us! The media is saying that they did not even know the story of black hair...yet they are blamed for our decisions...

I don't think the media is unfair...we are there...we just chose to ignore what we have...

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 5:36 am

I think some struggles can only be seen and understood by the people that been there still going through them and overcame them Africans had tribes they fought each other granted that's how many of us ended up here in the first place but their wars weren't based on color and hair type , IF all brown women are self inflicted that that same rule can apply to Black people light , brown and dark struggles also self inflicted ? if so than why do some light women feel guilty to be called beautiful ? why do some feel the need to excuse their preferences ? Our issues are linked to our history and pass that's true and present even with individuals we are all product of our environment , People do tend to stick to those who identify as them but aren't all of us "them" ?
Black people are every shade and until those shades are shown in the same light this discussions will occur do you think Spike Lee made that movie based on his imagination ?
Everything and every action is a reaction Brown skin female demanding for more representation are not delusional I don't think it's fair to have 1 brown person for every 100 light ones to rep all black as beautiful it should be equal all across the board

by 1FlySista 19th January 2011, 11:20 am

Indigo.Blue wrote:The unpopular opinion:

Why can't Mixed Chicks have a product that is designed for their hair type just like tighter curlies have products that are geared for them. If a product had Africa or Caribbean in its name, the Mixed Chicks won't turn their nose at that product just because it does not cater to them...

Every company can't cater to every group...that is like me getting mad at a steak house for not having a vegetarian dish...

Black people are just as human as everyone else...I hear the brunett v. Blond; blue eye v. Brown eye; tall v. Short; rich v. Poor; tan v. Pale; democrat v. Republican; fox v. Msnbc; pepsi v. Coke...debates everyday...

I have mentioned this point in a previous post...if someone would have said dark skin chicks are beautiful...there is peace on earth...but if someone says team light skin...all hell breaks loose...same thing with hairb texture...if I said I have good hair and I am type 4 no one says anything...but if a type 3 says she has good hair, there is a problem...

Now, please don't interpret my opinion as an endorcement for this behavior...I just like things to be balanced...

Cosign! Speak on it Indigo, you my sista are woke. Boy, in reading all of these responses on this thread. A job has surely been done on our minds when this ignorance reigns supreme. The true struggle is within. smh

by Nali1987 19th January 2011, 11:57 am

Nevermind the Mixed Chicks. The brand name is stupid as hell, by the way. You're targetting people with curls not their race. A biracial child might have coarse hair and a black child might have 3C curls. They're excluding people from buying their products. For example L'Oreal would be BOYCOTTED if they dared create conditioners only for blonde-blue-eyes babies.

There was a Light Skinned vs. Dark skinned party? (Blinks) Seriously? Bangs head against the wall.

The black community, not only in the United States, but worldwide, has a color complex. The lighter you are, the longer your hair is, the greater the chances are of you being put on a pedastal. In the media, you won't find one celebrity with a dark skin and a wide nose (still loving Rihanna for not getting hers done) so women and men grow up thinking that what the media is potraying on TV and in magazines is what is beautiful. As long as only Halle Berry's and Beyonces of the worlds are considered beautiful in the media, the mentality that black isn't as beautiful as white, as latina, as this as that, will exist.

I will never be able to watch this video and not cry. This video wasn't filmed in the sixties or seventies. Kiri Davis, a high-school teen, sat with 21 black kids in New York and found that 16 of them liked the white doll better. In 2005, "Can you show me the doll that you like best?" Davis asked a black girl in the film. The girl picked the white doll immediately. When asked to show the doll that "looks bad," the girl chose the black doll. But when Davis asked the girl, "Can you give me the doll that looks like you?" the black girl first touched the white doll and then reluctantly pushed the black doll ahead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWyI77Yh1Gg
Watch this video (you can skin top 3:40 for the experiment, but I'd watch the whole thing) and tell me the "slavery" mentality is dead. In 2005, and our kids (and us!) are still struggling.

Light skin versus darkskin parties. Ugh. (SCREAMS!)

by Nali1987 19th January 2011, 12:27 pm

Indigo.Blue wrote:I hear you creole beauty...but are you talking about the media or our neighbors???

Also, your name is "creole beauty"...would it be okay if I said "mixed beauty", "black beauty", white beauty"...somehow, I think 2 of those names would get the side eye while the other 2 will be embraced...(I hope that did not offend you...just making a point)

I understand the point you are trying to make but I think you're missing something very important. You're neglecting the history and the effect it has had on society. Since Obama has become president, white-power groups have had an increase of more than 225% (based on homeland security reports). Based on the tramautic past of your race, sometimes things resonate MORE.

And it's not only a black thing. The same thing goes for white people and for example, Germans. For example, the World Cup in 2006. It's normal for different nationalities to wear their flags with pride and wave them around. But for Germany showing NATIONAL PRIDE carried more significance than other countries displaying the same thing. The World Cup had broken through 60 years of German inhibition about openly demonstrating national sentiment after the wars. That to me is almost the same thing as how people are very cautious and hesitant when claiming WHITE PRIDE/BEAUTY. Not because it's wrong to be proud of who you are, but because of the history behind it all and because of the current state of race-relations and how it all can turn very bad, very fast.

(P.S Lol, excuse the essay. I'm very passionate about anything political and race related.)

by KandyLandKurls 19th January 2011, 1:31 pm

umm... I guess this isnt the place to announce that im having a Mixed Chicks Giveaway on my blog, lol (being sarcastic) but before I go, I wanted to say that I doubt that the Mixed Chicks owners really meant to stirr up drama between Dark VS Light. I believe that, they are well aware that many dark brown sisters use their products. As far as the company being named mixed chicks, there arent many products catering to biracial/multiracial and very curly haired people. There are products catering to Kinky hair and Caucasian and not to all of those in between.

by mrscoutrmmm 19th January 2011, 1:35 pm

@ Nali1987 Thank you! I think you have hit the nail right on the head and thank you for giving examples. Why is the behavior from this company "just ok"? If this was another brand we would be up in arms. I must admit how surprised I am by the replies to this post that dont think this is an issue. Every race has their own thoughts on what beauty is but our's is so DEEP, its more than the surface and that's not what I see this as. To me naming the product mixed chicks alone reeks of stupidity, but the whole "team" thing? Why cant we just be black and be happy? As far as finding beauty icons it is up to US to teach our daughters and educate ourselves about the Josephine Bakers, Grace Jones, and Venus Williams' of the world because obviously no one is going to do it for us. When we stop looking for one standard of beauty then I believe things will slowly but surely change.

by DvaAuNaturel 19th January 2011, 1:54 pm

@Nali1987, thank you so much!I think we must look at history and truly understand the role that images (media) in this whole debate. We simply cannot ignore that and you so eloquently pointed that out. If we don't truly know history and its role in the debate we're doomed. Maybe that's the reason we keep having the same silly debates (not here, just in general as a society and people) on light vs. dark. Really??!! In 2011? SMH. This whole discussion further highlights the pschological damages inistitutional racism has had on us. Read the descriptions; we can't act as if it doesn't exist and plays a MAJOR role.

The term "institutional racism" describes societal patterns that have the net effect of imposing oppressive or otherwise negative conditions against identifiable groups on the basis of race or ethnicity.

Institutional racism (also called structural or systemic racism) describes any kind of system of inequality based on race. It can occur in institutions such as public government bodies, private business corporations (such as media outlets), and universities (public and private).

I think the company Mixed Chicks just made a poor business decision by involving themselves in this. I sure they are aware that their customer base is varied with women of all hair textures and hues.

Great discussion though! Very Happy

by CarlaAR 19th January 2011, 3:44 pm

KandyLandKurls wrote:umm... I guess this isnt the place to announce that im having a Mixed Chicks Giveaway on my blog, lol (being sarcastic) but before I go, I wanted to say that I doubt that the Mixed Chicks owners really meant to stirr up drama between Dark VS Light. I believe that, they are well aware that many dark brown sisters use their products. As far as the company being named mixed chicks, there arent many products catering to biracial/multiracial and very curly haired people. There are products catering to Kinky hair and Caucasian and not to all of those in between.

But the thing is, there is no such thing as so-called bi-racial hair. Yes, a white man and a black woman can have a baby, but that doesn't meant the baby will have Cree Summer curls and two black people wont necessarily have a 4b baby. When it's all said and done, its just hair. I've seen blonde hair/blue eyed people with 4a hair and non bi-racial blacks with 3c, even 3b hair. I use some brands initially made for Caucasian hair and they work for me - Suave, Aubrey Organics, Garnier, etc. I've seen white folks buy Jane Carter and K-C at Whole Foods for their hair. At the end of the day, what works for you is what works for you w/o a race associated to it.

by Indigo.Blue 19th January 2011, 3:55 pm

Thank you J.S.M, Mandi, and 1FlySista...

@Nali: Why is the name Mixed Chick stupid??? That is what they are! Is it equally stupid to name a product Black Chick? You are totally denying the plight of a biracial child. Some feel lost in the middle. White is not for them and Black is not for them, so they are wrong for developing a product that will work for their texture??? What would have been a suitable name??? They are targeting a particular population and any other name would not have let that population know that product was designed for them. Are Indians allowed to make a product for their hair type? How about Asians? Every culture has different hair needs...If I was in Europe and I saw a product called Black Girls...I would look twice, because I know that the other products may not bring out my hair's full potential...

If a product said that it was designed for blue eyes...yes that would be silly since hair has nothing to do with eyes. But if an eye product said for blue eyes, I will not be using it because I don’t have blue eyes...

You say that you don’t see celebrities (I will specify women) with dark skin and a wide nose??? Really??? Well let me give you a short list: Oprah, Michelle Obama, Queen Latifah, Sherri Shepard, Whoppie, Maya Angelou, Condeleza Rice, Jennifer Hudson...but I am sure they somehow don’t count...

I wonder if light-skin black men complain that they are not represented in the media since most of the black male celebrities are brown or dark skin: Will Smith, Denzel, Bill Cosby, Samuel Jackson, Laurence Fishburne...I cannot name you too many light skin black actors (Terrance Howard, Hill Harper)...does that mean something significant? I highly doubt it!

I absolutely hate the white doll/ black doll experiment. I did not watch your link, but I have seen that experiment and I think it is biased and shows nothing. If you ask the white child to pick the best they will pick the white doll and somehow they are racist. If they pick the black doll, they have a good since of self. But conversely, if the black child picked the white doll as their favorite, they have a deep seeded race issues and they hate themselves. Is there a right answer to that question? To ask black OR white is problematic. It leads one to believe that one is better than the other. How about building character instead of brow-beating a child into believing that their black is the best. There are no right answers to that question…

by Indigo.Blue 19th January 2011, 4:13 pm

@Carla and KandyLandKurls...I totally agree!

@Mrscoutrmmm: you asked why can't we just be black and happy...I ask why must I deny a feature about myself because it may make someone else feel uncomfortable. Why must a 3c deny loving their curls because a 4c may be envious. Do you have to deny having a great relationship with your father if I never had a father? Should you deny having a Masters if I only have a GED? Just to set the record straight, I do have a problem with the entire versus debate. All I am trying to do is explain that it is not a black thing...it is a human thing...

To the people who believe in the slave mentality and that my behaviors today are a direct correlation to the pain my ancestor endured…let me ask you this: If your great grandmother was attacked by a bird, will you have a disdain for birds? Because your grandmother loves cow brains (my great grandmother used to eat it with eggs...), does that mean that I will love it also? Since Jews endured through the Holocaust, do they have a Holocaust mentality??? I wish black people would stop blaming slavery for all of the problems in their lives. Every other race exhibits the same exact behaviors. WE ARE HUMAN! If you would get out of your bubble you will see that. Example: In Asia, Asians have surgery to "open" their eyes. They complain that the only Asians in the media are the ones with "open eyes." White women complain about their men attraction for Asian women. If you were to read their forums, it sounds the exact same as a black women argument about black men dating white women. Sure there are things that we need to work on. The things that we need to work on are the same as the things we need to work on as a human race...

by Nali1987 19th January 2011, 4:41 pm

Indigo.Blue wrote:Thank you J.S.M, Mandi, and 1FlySista...

I've replied to everything in bold.

@Nali: Why is the name Mixed Chick stupid??? That is what they are! Is it equally stupid to name a product Black Chick? You are totally denying the plight of a biracial child. Some feel lost in the middle. White is not for them and Black is not for them, so they are wrong for developing a product that will work for their texture??? What would have been a suitable name??? They are targeting a particular population and any other name would not have let that population know that product was designed for them. Are Indians allowed to make a product for their hair type? How about Asians? Every culture has different hair needs...If I was in Europe and I saw a product called Black Girls...I would look twice, because I know that the other products may not bring out my hair's full potential...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
You're making it seem as if every mixed child LOOKS the same way. It's just as easy to find a biracial child with blonde kinky hair..
And a black child with straight hair. And a Jewish girl with an afro. And not once did anyone mention that there was anything wrong with developing product for different hairtypes. Most of us on here wish would brands would create products that cater to curls. I certainly didn't mention that. And there are way more ways to reach your audience than to name your product after them. Otherwise McDonald's would have to change its name to "for-hamburger-and-french-fries-lovers" and John Frieda would've changed his whole blonde line to "hey-you-with-blonde-hair".

I said the name was stupid in a brand management sense because first off their products work on a variety of curls on different people's head, mixed or not. Instead of making your brand bigger and expanding your demographic, they've created a sense of excluding certain groups which is stupid and counter-effective to me, especially in economic sense.

And yes, it would be equally stupid to call a product Black Girls.

YOU: You say that you don’t see celebrities (I will specify women) with dark skin and a wide nose??? Really??? Well let me give you a short list: Oprah, Michelle Obama, Queen Latifah, Sherri Shepard, Whoppie, Maya Angelou, Condeleza Rice, Jennifer Hudson...but I am sure they somehow don’t count...

I said again, you don't see many DARK skinned women with typical african features being hailed as beautiful. I didn't say a thing about darkskinned black women not being successful or powerful. I didn't even mention that. We were talking about BEAUTY in the media. When did you see Oprah, Michelle Obama, Whoopie or Maya Angelou in a magazine ad, or in a top 100 most beautiful list? And even if they did mention Michelle Obama they'll praise her charm, smarts, fashionsense but to hear her called a beautiful woman? I certainly haven't heard that enough. Condeleeza Rice hasn't been in a fashion magazine either. When did Whoopie or Sherrie Sheppard grace the covers of Elle and Vogue like Beyonce, Rihanna and Halle?

YOU: I wonder if light-skin black men complain that they are not represented in the media since most of the black male celebrities are brown or dark skin: Will Smith, Denzel, Bill Cosby, Samuel Jackson, Laurence Fishburne...I cannot name you too many light skin black actors (Terrance Howard, Hill Harper)...does that mean something significant? I highly doubt it!

We're talking about the influence of media on the self-esteem of women. You cannot compare the two since black women have been put down for decades. You will hardly hear.. "Oh boy, you're so sexy for a light skinned dude." You will hardly hear female rappers refer to them in derogatory terms. And to be honest I really don't get the point you're trying to make. A lightskinned man will hardly in general be considered less handsome than a darkskinned man. I think it would be more plausible for men with Biggie like complexions to feel insecure about themselves, especially with a lot of females focused on looks (and having babies with that good hair.)

YOU: I absolutely hate the white doll/ black doll experiment. I did not watch your link, but I have seen that experiment and I think it is biased and shows nothing. If you ask the white child to pick the best they will pick the white doll and somehow they are racist. If they pick the black doll, they have a good since of self. But conversely, if the black child picked the white doll as their favorite, they have a deep seeded race issues and they hate themselves. Is there a right answer to that question? To ask black OR white is problematic. It leads one to believe that one is better than the other. How about building character instead of brow-beating a child into believing that their black is the best. There are no right answers to that question…

It's not about brow-beating anything into anybody. It's about self-worth and self esteem. And it's about the fact that after countless experiments and surveys a lot of black women think they're less pretty, less this. than other races. If you have a child saying this doll is bad because it's black and seeing a young black girl hesitate to pick the one doll she resemblances most because she's just called her bad, then that girl has self-esteem issues. I don't understand how an experiment can be biased. If you have a white young girl picking a white doll to pick with, I honestly think the response would be she would like to play with something that looks like her. And since you haven't taken the time to watch the video then I don't think you can offer a valuable argument about what was presented in it or not.

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 4:44 pm

LOL i actually didn't notice the comment about the question on my name being "Creolebeauty " and whether or not i would be angry if a white girl named herself White beauty ? LIKE i stated 20 comments ago i have nothing against light, brown and dark appreciating and loving them selves we are all beautiful and i truly can see and appreciate beauty in all people but my point is "Mixed chick" product for mixed chicks right ? what does a mix chic hair looks like ? because as someone else stated a biracial person hair can be of any texture so the name of their product is ignorant for that matter , since being biracial doesn't equal one hair type that's only obtainable by being biracial
IF you cannot recognize that light skin , long hair , light eyes the closer to white you look the more beautiful you are considered in our society you are in denial because it's all around you maybe you choose not to see it
We can name actors and actresses all day but for each 50 light skin beauty bombshell they may be 1 dark skin one that's equally successful and considered beautiful , dark skin women only played the maids and combative ones in the movies up until recently i have nothing wrong with a mixed person a light skin person or a blue person loving their selves and appreciating their beauties but that said love for selves and recognition must be equal across the spectrum for this #teams to stop forming i don't see why and how someone can tell me they don;t notice this mentality in the Black community as if everyone is imagining this issues

by **Lynnieluve** 19th January 2011, 4:46 pm

::Standing up applauding indigo.blue::

WELL SAID, WELL SAID!!!!

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 4:50 pm

I agree with Nalli 200% thank thank thank you you said everything i wanted

by Nali1987 19th January 2011, 5:02 pm

Indigo.Blue wrote:@Carla and KandyLandKurls...I totally agree!

@Mrscoutrmmm: you asked why can't we just be black and happy...I ask why must I deny a feature about myself because it may make someone else feel uncomfortable. Why must a 3c deny loving their curls because a 4c may be envious. Do you have to deny having a great relationship with your father if I never had a father? Should you deny having a Masters if I only have a GED? Just to set the record straight, I do have a problem with the entire versus debate. All I am trying to do is explain that it is not a black thing...it is a human thing...

To the people who believe in the slave mentality and that my behaviors today are a direct correlation to the pain my ancestor endured…let me ask you this: If your great grandmother was attacked by a bird, will you have a disdain for birds? Because your grandmother loves cow brains (my great grandmother used to eat it with eggs...), does that mean that I will love it also? Since Jews endured through the Holocaust, do they have a Holocaust mentality??? I wish black people would stop blaming slavery for all of the problems in their lives. Every other race exhibits the same exact behaviors. WE ARE HUMAN! If you would get out of your bubble you will see that. Example: In Asia, Asians have surgery to "open" their eyes. They complain that the only Asians in the media are the ones with "open eyes." White women complain about their men attraction for Asian women. If you were to read their forums, it sounds the exact same as a black women argument about black men dating white women. Sure there are things that we need to work on. The things that we need to work on are the same as the things we need to work on as a human race...

I really can't believe you compared an entire race being put down because of the color of their skin, being called less human, being considered property even in the constitution of the United States, being made to sit in the back of the bus, to use colored toilet, and its effect its had on black people (living in worst cicumstances than white people, earning less) to a disdain for birds. And slavery ended in 1865 but in the 1960's churches were still being bombed. I'm not talking about a thing that took place when the piramides were being built. 50 years ago we were still marching.

And blaming the white people for everything that's gone wrong in your life IS A WHOLE OTHER THING than to say slavery has had a lasting effect in the lives of black people.

I'm not even going to comment on the Holocause vs Slavery thing. Black people were slaves for decades and Jews experienced something inhumane during the second world war. I'm not going to turn it into a whos-had-it-worst-discussions. But I am sure the long range psychological effects of the Holocaust on the mental health of survivors are just as complex.

Since I'm not jewish, I've focused much more on studies done on the effects of slavery, by people like C. Vann Woodward, John Hope Franklin, etc. And they all conclude that slavery has had lasting effects on the conditions blacks live in and also psychological effects. Slavery has also greatly impacted countries up until now, with European (and American) wealth often built on the slave trade and slave labor. Meanwhile, the countries most ravaged by slavery, losing much of their human capital, still remain disadvantaged today.

by 1FlySista 19th January 2011, 5:04 pm

Still? *deep sigh* smh confused

by DvaAuNaturel 19th January 2011, 5:10 pm

1FlySista wrote:Still? *deep sigh* smh

+1.

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 5:15 pm

@ Nali1987 you hit the nail on the coffin Say no more Smile

by Mandi'sGoneCurly! 19th January 2011, 5:16 pm

1FlySista wrote:Still? *deep sigh* smh

+2

by creolebeauty1 19th January 2011, 5:17 pm

LOL i can talk about this all day

by Nali1987 19th January 2011, 5:19 pm

creolebeauty1 wrote:LOL i can talk about this all day

Girl, I know right. Nothing more interesting than debating world issues and feeding your brain. But I won't be saying anything more, moslty because I'm about to log off and pull an all-nighter for exams. Arghhh.

by Just Ashley 19th January 2011, 5:23 pm

I am looking at the incident as a businessperson.

On the business side, it was completely and utterly STUPID to use a hash tag without knowing where it came from. It only takes a minute to do a thorough check of its history. If you are a business, you MUST research your marketing or else it turns into the situation they are going through now. If they do not know how to do that then they need to stop using social networking, go take some classes. Mashable writers and editors are only a call a way. Common sense says they should have not even replied to any tweets and instead waited for everything to die down and issue an apology on their website instead of saying “Go Jets”.

On naming their product, if they wanted to cater to people with curly hair then they should have named it Curly Chicks. With their name, Mixed chicks and main marketing imagery, on the surface they are excluding not only many women who are not mixed but have curly hair but also the women who are mixed but only have features of one race; because not all mixed persons look like everyone on the website. Everything on their website is curly this or curly that but their imagery says this is what a mixed person looks like. The message and the visual imagery they are portraying do not match.

Also, in my opinion, to say they had no idea what was going on with this so-called race war is dim. If a brand is marketing to a specific demographic like Mixed Chicks is trying to do(whether or not if people outside the targeted group uses the product is irrelevant) then they should know that people who are mixed comes in different shades just like every other racial group. The entire thing of light skinned vs. dark skinned was dumb and this company just group themselves into the foolery that it is. I hope that they are learning from their mistake.

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