Can you really deep condition your hair

Definitely some debatable items here. So, let the comments begin.

http://thenaturalhaven.blogspot.com/2009/03/monday-myths-can-you-really-deep.html

Well, it depends on the conditioner....I think Jc generalized a bit too much with that post....but it's still accurate. The point is that you can't make a conditioner do more than it was formulated to do.

Here's another perspective with the same conclusion...

http://hairliberty.org/black-hair-care/articles/hair-care-secrets/deep-conditioning.html

WOW ... thats very interesting

Littleone ' Thxs for the post. Looking forward to other informative posts on this thread. Conditioners, like any product, is tested many times in controlled environments. The developers USUALLY know the limits of the product, although some ancillary benefits are sometimes revealed later that were not the intended benefit. Bottom line is "WHAT IS DEEP?" We look to our senses to determine success. So, in my opinion, when the hair FEELS soft and LOOKS good, we think the mission is accomplished. With many things we do, we are simply COATING the hair shaft (clays, henna, many conditioners, shea, etc.--of course these things have benefits that are important) This is why paraben and silicone conditioners are so popular. The reality is very few ingredients actually penetrate the hair shaft. If we consider "deep" as referring to penetrating beyond the hair shaft, then most ingredients fail miserably. But, if that is not our intent and we consider products that do not go beyond the shaft, many more ingredients/products are winners. We can't deny the laws of nature and chemistry. Ms. Chicoro has some good advice--maintaining moisture is still the goal. Glad coconut oil and my hair have a wonderful love affair--LOL

@naturalnolagirl1900: Parabens do not have anything to do with conditioning your hair. They are preservatives which are included in the formula to prevent bacteria from growing in the container.

Yes, I realize that. Different point in that sentence. Thxs for clarifying it to prevent any confusion it would cause.

naturalnolagirl1900 wrote: With many things we do, we are simply COATING the hair shaft (clays, henna, many conditioners, shea, etc.--of course these things have benefits that are important) ... The reality is very few ingredients actually penetrate the hair shaft. If we consider "deep" as referring to penetrating beyond the hair shaft, then most ingredients fail miserably.

Ok, now I'm confused. I've read so much about henna, and I use henna, I've read that it penetrates the hair shaft, I've read that it binds to the keratin, I've read that it fills in openings in the cuticle, and I've read now that it only coats the hair...

Queen, I have consistently read that it binds to the keratin. I have read henna penetrates the hair shaft and other places that say it does not. I am going to contact Kadija at Henna Sooq and Catherine at Hennaforhair and get their responses. The following link credits Catherine with providing information in their article. This article states henna does penetrate the hair shaft. http://www.livestrong.com/article/205121-henna-hair-treatment/. Again, I am going to email these 2 ladies and get clarification and post their responses.

Awesome. Thanks for the links too!

Sure thing.

You ladies are freaking awesome... I've never really thought about conditioners in terms of their ability to penetrate the hair shaft ...
I'm definitely going to read the articles posted to see if I can undestand this whole thing
Thanks again ....

naturalnolagirl1900 wrote:Queen, I have consistently read that it binds to the keratin. I have read henna penetrates the hair shaft and other places that say it does not. I am going to contact Kadija at Henna Sooq and Catherine at Hennaforhair and get their responses. The following link credits Catherine with providing information in their article. This article states henna does penetrate the hair shaft. http://www.livestrong.com/article/205121-henna-hair-treatment/. Again, I am going to email these 2 ladies and get clarification and post their responses.

I agree with naturalnolagirl1900 and I have done a lot of research on the topic. The lawsonia inermis molecule in henna is highly attracted to keratin, which is why it is mostly used for tattoos. I think some of the suppliers like to say that it also penetrates the hair shaft, but it does not.

Which is why (drum roll please)...henna helps your hair stay moisturized and may loosen your curls, but it does not strengthen your hair. Only things that penetrate the hair shaft or wrap the hair in a film (e.g. polyquats) can strengthen the hair.

That being said, damaged, extremely porous hair can absorb molecules that healthier hair cannot. I think that fact is what causes confusion about these treatments. No two heads (or strands for that matter) are alike.

Ok, so how is it that henna doesn't wash out of the hair like a temporary color would, if it doesn't penetrate the hair? Wouldn't only damaged hair take on the color then? I also noticed henna fades from my skin, but not my hair or my nails...

Good question Queenshakirah,

The reason henna is permanent is because it is highly attracted to keratin. As in 2 magnets that can never be separated once they stick together. Your skin and hair are both made of keratin so that's why henna can stain both.

Henna tattoos do not fade, they fall/flake off. Your skin cells turn over every 14 days, so that upper layer that has been stained with henna is gone within 2 weeks.

Ahhhh! I get it. Thank u littleone!

queenshakirah wrote:Ahhhh! I get it. Thank u littleone!

You're very welcome. This has become a really informative thread. I hope everybody reads and learns!

I'm certainly no expert, but I learned at the last natural hair meetup that it takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat. DC's without heat would not go deep no matter how long you left a bag on your head and DC's that did not instruct you to use heat were not real DC's.

Renny wrote:I'm certainly no expert, but I learned at the last natural hair meetup that it takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat. DC's without heat would not go deep no matter how long you left a bag on your head and DC's that did not instruct you to use heat were not real DC's.

@Renny: I know you are just repeating what you were told and I appreciate that. So, please don't take any offense to my response.

"...It takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat."...that's just false.

1) The cuticle is made up of 5-10 layers. To say that it takes x amount of minutes to open "the cuticle" makes no sense.

2) Heat does not open the cuticle. Some conditioners require heat to help the conditioner penetrate between the layers of the closed cuticles. The cuticle layer is like shingles on a roof, not a trap door.

But again, damaged hair has thin, chipped, and/or missing cuticle layers so it will absorb more ingredients and do so more quickly than healthy hair. There's a lot of variables to think about. That's why the best advice is "follow the instructions on the bottle". If a company has formulated a product that works better with heat, they will tell you that in the instructions.

@Everyone: Why wouldn't they tell you the absolute best way to use the product that they created?

I had gotten an email with the question, and hope it had helped.

Ladies, I was reluctant to post this response b/c I wanted to post both responses from the ladies I contacted. But, I will go ahead and post the one I received from Khadija of Henna Sooq.

My question: I belong to a natural hair forum and many of the ladies, including myself, are interested in verifying whether henna penetrates the hair shaft. Also, if there is any resource you know of to reference so everyone in their own time can go to it and read the details for themselves, it would be extremely helpful. Some places we look says henna penetrates the hair shaft and others say it does not. So, it is a little confusing. As always, thank you so much for being so helpful.

Her response: Thank you for your post Joan. Unfortunately this shows us that there is a need for education and training in natural hair care. I hope one day that there will be more scientific, and classes teaching and training those in the field of natural hair care, to the same degree that they have for chemical hair care, and hair cutting etc…
I have not as yet found a reference or resource that sites the answer to your question that I know as reliable. From what I have learned, and from my own experience, is that henna coats the hair strand, and binds to the keratin.
Should I have the opportunity to learn more about this in detail,and I will be seeking this out, I will be sure to post it up since it looks like it is well needed information.
I hope this helps somewhat.

I have been really busy with work and haven't had a chance to research the journals, but I will and post my findings.

LittleOne wrote:

Renny wrote:I'm certainly no expert, but I learned at the last natural hair meetup that it takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat. DC's without heat would not go deep no matter how long you left a bag on your head and DC's that did not instruct you to use heat were not real DC's.

@Renny: I know you are just repeating what you were told and I appreciate that. So, please don't take any offense to my response.

"...It takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat."...that's just false.

1) The cuticle is made up of 5-10 layers. To say that it takes x amount of minutes to open "the cuticle" makes no sense.

2) Heat does not open the cuticle. Some conditioners require heat to help the conditioner penetrate between the layers of the closed cuticles. The cuticle layer is like shingles on a roof, not a trap door.

But again, damaged hair has thin, chipped, and/or missing cuticle layers so it will absorb more ingredients and do so more quickly than healthy hair. There's a lot of variables to think about. That's why the best advice is "follow the instructions on the bottle". If a company has formulated a product that works better with heat, they will tell you that in the instructions.

@Everyone: Why wouldn't they tell you the absolute best way to use the product that they created?

No offense taken, but I do realize what the cuticle looks like. I know it's layers and not a trap door. Using the word open was my bad, sorry I don't know the technical term. I'm going to defer to the expert in my world (not even the person who shared it at my last meetup) who has studied hair as a professional and told me that heat will open or lift or whatever the preferred word would be, the cuticle.

Renny wrote:

LittleOne wrote:

Renny wrote:I'm certainly no expert, but I learned at the last natural hair meetup that it takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat. DC's without heat would not go deep no matter how long you left a bag on your head and DC's that did not instruct you to use heat were not real DC's.

@Renny: I know you are just repeating what you were told and I appreciate that. So, please don't take any offense to my response.

"...It takes 12 minutes to open the cuticle and opening it required heat."...that's just false.

1) The cuticle is made up of 5-10 layers. To say that it takes x amount of minutes to open "the cuticle" makes no sense.

2) Heat does not open the cuticle. Some conditioners require heat to help the conditioner penetrate between the layers of the closed cuticles. The cuticle layer is like shingles on a roof, not a trap door.

But again, damaged hair has thin, chipped, and/or missing cuticle layers so it will absorb more ingredients and do so more quickly than healthy hair. There's a lot of variables to think about. That's why the best advice is "follow the instructions on the bottle". If a company has formulated a product that works better with heat, they will tell you that in the instructions.

@Everyone: Why wouldn't they tell you the absolute best way to use the product that they created?

No offense taken, but I do realize what the cuticle looks like. I know it's layers and not a trap door. Using the word open was my bad, sorry I don't know the technical term. I'm going to defer to the expert in my world (not even the person who shared it at my last meetup) who has studied hair as a professional and told me that heat will open or lift or whatever the preferred word would be, the cuticle.

Hey Renny! I'm sorry I wasn't trying to imply that. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I know a lot of women think that the cuticle works like a trap door, so I was just trying to make that clear.

Very interesting I have been using Henna for several month and it is interesting to know that it does not penetrate the hair.
Regarding DCing; I never use heat. Haven't applied heat to my hair since July when I started my HHJ. I'm too weary about any possible damage and figure why take the risk?

With that said; Little One I have a question;
I only DC with a baggy so does that mean I am not getting the best benefit? I usually use oils such as EVVO, Jojoba or Coconut oil and now castor oil with a small amount of conditioner and then baggy overnight twice a week as a DC.

Could you suggest a different approach? I want a deep conditioner that is mostly natural and can not find one (I have tried darcy's and shea moisture and the results are not as great on my hair as it seems to have been on others), so I decided to use oils, which I read was a good option. And I have been happy with the results most noticably after a Henna treatment.

Hi Curlya!

That is a tough question, because my answer may be unpopular.....

Natural oils can nourish your hair, but they don't often lead to extreme softness. Shea Moisture would be my first suggestion because they do a good job of formulating natural ingredients so that they can be effective. If you didn't love how your hair felt after using their Deep Treatment Masque, I think you should try something totally different.

Conditioners like Mixed Chicks, Aveda, even Herbal Essences and Pantene can give you good softness because they contain a high quality silicone. Despite what many have been told, silicones coat your strands with a soft, breathable layer.

It's unfortunate that the CG Method took hold in the natural community, because it's not really the best strategy for our hair. We need all the help we can get when it comes to slip and softness, right? Silicones and polyquats deliver that. If you follow CurlyNikki's posts you can see that she is definitely okay with cones these days.

Of course, you may prefer natural conditioners/oils for other reasons. Maybe you want to avoid unnecessary chemicals or you're embracing a natural/organic lifestyle. I'm not saying you can't find good quality products, but our hair is quite demanding and you may have to make some trade offs.

HTH! If you want to experiment without spending a lot of money try the Pantene Curly Hair Series Deep Moisturizing Treatment (in a jar).

As far as deep conditioning with a baggy: that makes sense because natural oils need time to penetrate the hair so time and warmth are always helpful. That would not be necessary with a store bought conditioner though.

@LittleOne -
Thank you very much for responding. I will make my next purchase the Mixed Chicks and probably the Pantene that you mentioned, (I’ve actually seen it at the store).

Again, I appreciate your candidness. And my dear boyfriend will appreciate the break from the sound of the crunchy baggy while sleeping twice a week. - LOL

Have a great day!