Graduate School

I am the biggest procrastinator ever, which is why I'm trying to get my mind right NOW so that I can start early with the process of applying to graduate schools! So here's my deal, I've been out of college for 5 years now (class of 2005), and I feel that it is time for me to go back! Im 26, single, with no kids...so while life is flexible right now, I definitely want to take advantage of furthering my education! (Want to have this out the way before 30! LOL!)

I already have a degree in Marketing, and want to get an MBA or a Master's degree focusing around Marketing Communications, Communications Management, or Advertising...still trying to decide! I want to go back full time, as most of the programs are no more than 2 years, so I figured why not? Anyway, the whole process of applying kind of makes me nervous! LOL! Why? I don't know...I freak out when something or someone else has to determine my outcome! The good thing is, Im starting now researching schools, so that by fall I will have my choices narrowed down, and can focus on the application process, which Im also dreading! Also I still need to take the GMAT....(Urghhhhh...I hate tests!). I'm planning to take a prep course towards the end of the summer, and OMG...the courses are soooo freakin expensive! Geeezzzz! But I know I need it because I probably won't study that well alone!

So my question is to all of you that have applied to graduate programs, or all of you that have been there and done that, what is your advice? How did you go about picking the right program? Did you take any prep courses before you took the GMAT/GRE? If so, did you benefit from it? How did you plan to write your essays? Did you get in the school of your choice?

As you can see, I have a lot of questions! LOL! I just know I need to stay on track to make this happen, so any suggestions or advice you may have will be greatly appreciated! I know there are some well educated curlies on this site, so Im definitely ready to take in all of your advice [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] !

There are a lot of schools that no longer require the GMAT/GRE if your GPA is above 3.0. The programs cater to the working adult. Yes, they are still accredited programs.

I currently attend Spring Arbor in Michigan and didn't have to take the GMAT. Although I attend the online program, a co-worker went into the classroom and didn't take the test either.

Continue your research, I'm sure you will find something.

@labon10 That would be awesome if I can go without taking that GMAT/GRE!!! But the thing is most of the schools and programs that I want to apply to do require it [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] ! So im thinking I may need to take it anyway, however, im still researching....so I will definitely look for some programs that don't require it as well. Thanks so much!

I'm going to go the opposite direction and ask you to really think about what it is you're trying to accomplish. True that some schools no longer require the GMAT/GRE - but I'd caution you to check out the employment statistics for those schools relative to those that do require the GMAT/GRE. Me personally? I'm not going to invest $100,000 to go to a school where the average post-MBA starting salary is $60,000. More important than money, I'm not going to invest $100,000 in an education at an institution that has little success with people trying to do ____________ (you fill in the blank). All degrees are not created equal. You get what you prepare for. And you get what you pay for.

The sad truth is names speak volumes. And the reality is, you want to go to get a graduate degree such that when YOU talk, people LISTEN. If you're going to make the personal, financial, emotional and spiritual commitment to go back to school go somewhere where people will want to listen!

That being said, here's the flip side of the equation: Where you go to grad school will only matter for your first and MAYBE second job after graduate school (5 year longevity tops). After that, people will pay more attention to what you've done rather than where you studied. The WHERE influences where you get your foot in the door and how, it is not the end-all-be-all to the rest of your career.

And don't sweat the GMAT. If MBA is the route you want to go - join MLT (Management Leadership for Tomorrow). It's a program with relationships at the top 25 business schools that has a methodology that pretty much guarantees your success (as long as you commit the effort). www.mlt.org.

You can crack the GMAT. Get the Manhattan Review Books (www.manhattanreview.com). Sign up for their $25 practice CAT exams (the hardest thing about the GMAT is that its on the computer) and $25 practice exercises (6 sections - 25 question each section). And purchase the Official Guide to the GMAT (green, purple and orange books - you can either get both green and purple, or just orange) on Amazon.com. Go to www.beatthegmat.com and download his free flash cards. You'll be scoring 650's+ in no time!! If you need more tips, email me! We can do this!!! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] If you're going to take a test prep class, take Manhattan GMAT - it's the best. I took Veritas and it was the biggest waste of money (I actually ended up getting a refund). Kaplan and Princeton Review are nonsense (as the questions aren't indicative of the real questions on the test). And the LAST practice tests you should take are the official ones from www.mba.com. These are from the makers of the exam and look EXACTLY like the day-of exam (down to font size, background color and questions).

I'm a 1st year MBA student at a top 5 school (I'll explain why I mention that in a minute). After 4 years of working in consulting I knew I was done with the day to day bs but didn't know quite what i wanted to do with myself. Actually - that's not true. I wanted to start a wine business (and still do, amongst other businesses) but quickly realized based on my undergraduate education (I went to a small private school in Cali) the folks who I needed to take me seriously wouldn't. So I thought about law school, and after taking the LSAT twice and scoring in the low 160's I realized that wasn't going to get me where I wanted to go. So then I focused on the GMAT & MBA.

The point - if you're going to do it, commit yourself and do it. There's no reason why you can't go to where YOU want to go except for your level of commitment.

So I say, give yourself some time. Get out the diary/journal/where-I-write-my-thoughts book out and start thinking about where you TRULY want to go and how to get there. The right direction will float to the top. Then commit 4 months to prepare for those exams and you'll be there in no time!

You can do it! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

So I ask you: if GMAT score wasn't an issue, where is the one school you would like to go to? School and program?

Let's get there!

@natural83 Wow, can I say that it's miracle to stumble upon this thread. I graduated from college one year ago with a degree in Economics. Like many of my classmates I thought I would be working in the high paying finance world, LMAO. By the time graduation rolled around I did not have any job offers so I moved back home. Let's just say that it has been a learning experience. With persistence I ended up in my current job as a grants assistant in a local health foundation. While I like the work, I can tell it's not where I want to be forever.

I've always known I wanted to go to business school something about studying companies and the decisions they make fascinates me. At this time I'm looking into MPA/MBA programs or universities that offer the MBA with non-profit management courses. Heck, I even thought about the LSAT, but I'm realizing that the more I know what I want out of a program the better it will be. I say all of this because I think it's great that you're serious about the process. I'll be following your progress and hopefully applying within the next year. I understand your pain about the tests though.

@Syrah Your post was EXTREMELY helpful. Someone else told me about ML4T. Have you done it or know people with positive experiences?

@Syrah Thanks sooooo much for all your great advice! It makes so much sense! I've really been doing my research and I'm prepping myself to get ready for this "application" process, as well as the GMAT! Im so glad that you recommend Manhattan GMAT prep against the others. I'd actually gone to a Manhattan GMAT prep "preview" class a few months back, meaning that I got to go attend an actual class for free to get a feel for what the classes are like. I really liked the teaching style and everything, and I knew leaving that that is what I need, a prep course because I need structure when it comes to studying for tests like that! LOL! And my friend took the course through Manhattan and he said they were good too! So Im hoping to get going with a class soon. I see you are in Chicago...im actually looking at a master's program at one of the schools up that way. I really appreciate the advice and I sooo need that motivation, so keep it coming! Oh yeah, and I will check out those links! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I will definitely keep you guys updated on my progress!

@Neems That's good that you are thinking about going back to graduate school too! Its definitely crazy out here with jobs and all, and I feel like now is a good time to go! I was the opposite of you coming out of college...I had gotten a job offer 2 months before I graduated, and moved like 2 weeks after graduation to start, which is how I got to Houston. So I put off grad school to get some work experience, and plus I didn't really know what I wanted to go back to school for, so Im kind of glad I waited because now, I know exactly what I want....and plus Im a little more mature now, and will definitely take it more serious! LOL! But you seem to know exactly what you want which is good! Do your thing girl...Im just trying to stay on top of it, with deadlines and all! Woooo! But like I said, I will definitely keep you guys posted!

Say a prayer or 3 for me guys! LOL!

Neems wrote:@Syrah Your post was EXTREMELY helpful. Someone else told me about ML4T. Have you done it or know people with positive experiences?

Neems - To answer your question - HUGE success. ML4T asks that you enter the program a full 16 months before you plan to start school. So for example, they are currently recruiting for people who plan to enter school in September of 2011. I found out about the program about 3 months before applications were due, so for me it was too late. I've got friends at all of the top 10 business schools who were ML4T candidates. So yea - big success! I regret not doing it and highly recommend it!

A lot of the top schools have "diversity" days where they bring in minority candidates and give you the opportunity to schmooze with admissions folks, current students and professors. And what I found was that a lot of these kids that attended the events with me knew each other - through ML4T. It's funny - at the time I was living on the West Coast but attended events at NYU, Columbia, HBS, Georgetown, Wharton and Chicago Booth - and kept seeing the same faces over and over again. Again, most knew each other through ML4T.

That being said, some schools have more success with ML4T than others. Michigan Ross, NYU, Kellogg, Dartmouth are huge ML4T feeder schools (meaning, I wouldn't be surprised if 80% of their admits are ML4T students). HBS also takes a handful of ML4T folks each year.

There's also something called the Consortium which allows minority candidates to apply to up to 6 schools for the price of 2 applications (the average application fee is about $250 - so start saving). AND it qualifies you for full scholarships at one of the 14 member schools (Michigan Ross, NYU, Georgetown, Yale, USC Marshall and UVA Darden just to name a few).

One last thing - some schools are more flexible with scholarship money than others. For example HBS and Stanford ONLY give out need-based scholarships. So even if you're a rocket scientist and solved world peace, unless you're beyond belief broke you're not getting any money because they do not give out merit scholarships. Columbia is stingy with their money - they give out a lot of $10K and $25K scholarships but few fellowships (full rides). Chicago Booth, Michigan Ross, Kellogg, Yale, USC and MIT give away BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG money (put it this way - I'd say 80% of the diverse students are on some sort of scholarship of varying degrees).

Also UCI is really trying to build the stature of its program and has started giving away BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG money (hello full tuition fellowships!) and has incredible connections within the tech and healthcare worlds - it's currently in the process of working on its branding. I'd say expect big things from Yale and UCI in the coming years.

@Syrah - you have given good advice, especially on the scholarships.

In the current market, recruits are not just looking at the Yales, MITs, Kelloggs, etc (as these schools also produce people that are dumb as a box of rocks). They realize that some of the best talents also come out of smaller schools. If you position yourself right, join the right organizations, network and try to get in some work experience before graduating, you can have the same success. It's about what you want and how hard you are willing to work for it. Keep in mind, there are people without degrees in many fields.

Some schools realize that there are many adults returning back to school. I think removing the GMAT requirement helps ease the burden/stress on those wishing to return. It doesn't mean that the school isn't accredited. What does taking the test really prove? That you can pass a test? Your first degree proves that you are trainable.

labon10 wrote:@Syrah - you have given good advice, especially on the scholarships.

In the current market, recruits are not just looking at the Yales, MITs, Kelloggs, etc (as these schools also produce people that are dumb as a box of rocks). They realize that some of the best talents also come out of smaller schools. If you position yourself right, join the right organizations, network and try to get in some work experience before graduating, you can have the same success. It's about what you want and how hard you are willing to work for it. Keep in mind, there are people without degrees in many fields.

Some schools realize that there are many adults returning back to school. I think removing the GMAT requirement helps ease the burden/stress on those wishing to return. It doesn't mean that the school isn't accredited. What does taking the test really prove? That you can pass a test? Your first degree proves that you are trainable.

My only point would be that the GMAT (or some other standardized test) shouldn't be the reason why you apply to a specific school. It should be the school's specialty, the program itself (length, order or study, type of learning environment), the professors, the research, the network (some schools have incredible networks in particular areas - i.e. USC and Real Estate). It should not be because of a standardized test because with the right level of commitment, the test can be a non-factor (or a benefactor!).

Go to the best school you can for what it is YOU want to do...not the one that required the least amount of effort to be accepted to. You get what you prepare for.

Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you're still amongst stars.

I agree with Syrah....that's what I've been focusing on in researching schools, do they have the best program for what I want to get in to? What types of networking opportunites will I be able to encounter? All these things are very important! Now if I can find a program that I truly want to get into that doesn't require a GMAT or GRE...then that's less stress on me! LOL! But if they do require it, and I really want to apply to that school because of the program they offer, by all means, I'm going to take the test and apply! But I do agree with both of you....a test, in my opinion, doesn't prove anything! I hate they even exist! LOL! But on the other hand, I want the best out of whatever program Im going to apply to and/or get in to, and I'm willing to do what is needed to put forth the effort!

Just wanted to update you guys on my graduate school mission. So I went ahead and signed up to take the Manhattan GMAT prep course, which starts on September 28th. Im really happy I did because when it comes to studying for standardized tests, I need structure...so yayyy for the prep course! The class starts on September 28th and ends November 23rd, 9 weeks. So shortly after the class is over, I will be taking the GMAT! Im still resarching schools, which has been exciting. There's actually an MBA world tour that's coming here in October, so of course I will be attending that to learn about some other programs. In the meantime, I am about to get started on one of the grad school apps that Im sure I want to apply to, and hopefully soon, I'll be able to have a few more choices and will get started on those too. So overall, Im really excited because on the real, i've been putting grad school off for the last 2 1/2 years! And I feel that now is the time for me to get serious, and Im clearly doing that! So guys please keep me in your prayers as I embark on this journey! Thanks for all the advice!

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